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Post by ac on Apr 16, 2016 8:34:57 GMT -5
Well said smiling4areason. I agree with everything you said. A few people ruin things for everyone else. I wish the clinics would just punish those people instead of everyone. I just don't get it when I see the same person over and over again who is Always late. Why doesn't that person get banned rather than force all the good people to sit in a procedure room for hours on a bio day? I understand there's the occasional actual emergency and you may miss an OPV but it should happen Very rarely. If your parent or grandparent passed, show the obituary, and that should be excused but if you're missing an OPV so you can get into another study, you should be banned. Instead the clinics assume other people will do the same and that's why there's restrictions on how far you can live from the clinic at some places. It ruins it for the good people which is just not right. There are plenty of good labrats so punish those who are not good and leave the good ones alone.
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Post by antecubital on Apr 28, 2016 13:03:22 GMT -5
Seriously, the original poster is a douche and maybe a few others are too. I swear people seem to have no grasp of how this industry works and every time they don't get their way it's PPD's fault or 's fault, or Covance or boohoo. WANKERS. Just for the record, my nickname is Summer's Eve. Are you better than me? Are you really all that much more smart? |
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Post by ****edadusual on Dec 1, 2016 20:57:04 GMT -5
PPD is a very two-faced company. It was an unpleasant surprise for me as well. I'm sure I'm you're not the first nor the last. The main basis behind all this isn't ethics-based nor morality based. It's business. You're essentially selling your unique gene sequence to companies for money. They are just the go-between. This is why you're always asked to sign separately for the allowance of DNA storaging. What they aren't saying is that the willingness of participants to sign off on this determines their priority level. That's the trick. Sell your soul or else. They claim that's not the case but trust me: IT IS.
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Post by puntkicker on Dec 2, 2016 2:24:32 GMT -5
PPD is a very two-faced company. It was an unpleasant surprise for me as well. I'm sure I'm you're not the first nor the last. The main basis behind all this isn't ethics-based nor morality based. It's business. You're essentially selling your unique gene sequence to companies for money. They are just the go-between. This is why you're always asked to sign separately for the allowance of DNA storaging. What they aren't saying is that the willingness of participants to sign off on this determines their priority level. That's the trick. Sell your soul or else. They claim that's not the case but trust me: IT IS. Thanks for that info. I did a study elsewhere where they gave a choice about the DNA storage, and said it wouldnt effect your selection. I just looked at one with Celerion, and it seemed like it was part of the study, not a choice. For the DNA storage, do most studies that have it force you to do it, or can you still be in the study without it, like the study I opted not to do it? Why exactly(in detail, if possible) do they want to store our genes or whatever? In the last study I looked it, I think part of it was up to 20 years! I kind of let the money outweigh my concerns, but didnt get in anyhow. Please tell me what you can about this DNA storage and why we should avoid it. Thanks |
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Post by ****edadusual on Dec 2, 2016 4:56:32 GMT -5
PPD is a very two-faced company. It was an unpleasant surprise for me as well. I'm sure I'm you're not the first nor the last. The main basis behind all this isn't ethics-based nor morality based. It's business. You're essentially selling your unique gene sequence to companies for money. They are just the go-between. This is why you're always asked to sign separately for the allowance of DNA storaging. What they aren't saying is that the willingness of participants to sign off on this determines their priority level. That's the trick. Sell your soul or else. They claim that's not the case but trust me: IT IS. Thanks for that info. I did a study elsewhere where they gave a choice about the DNA storage, and said it wouldnt effect your selection. I just looked at one with Celerion, and it seemed like it was part of the study, not a choice. For the DNA storage, do most studies that have it force you to do it, or can you still be in the study without it, like the study I opted not to do it? Why exactly(in detail, if possible) do they want to store our genes or whatever? In the last study I looked it, I think part of it was up to 20 years! I kind of let the money outweigh my concerns, but didnt get in anyhow. Please tell me what you can about this DNA storage and why we should avoid it. Thanks Well to be frank anything involving genetic storage and testing over time should require MUCH more red tape than in this case it actually does. But alas this is the United States where anything or anyone can be bought. When you sign a document that allows a company to have your genetic samples for the next ten years what you are essentially doing is 10 years worth of "virtual employment" that you're being written off of at the same time meaning you're mom, dad, ancestors get NO credit for whatever unique gene factors your blood holds. So let's use intellectual property for an example: Anytime intellectual property is created and used it requires some form of publishing or copyright due to the uniqueness of the material. The purpose of the "publishing" on the property is to not only track it's value overtime but give indisputable rights to the creator for it's original formulation, even if the copyright only falls under the form of a Creative Commons clause. With Pharmaceutical Sponsor there is no individual form of tracking and credit or reimbursement. Meaning if I where to whip up a batch of "healthy" drugs using your blood and a few others people's blood as a catalyst, even if the batch turns out bunk your blood work contributed to furthering the cause of research and therefore the eventual outcome of the drug's viability. Now, maybe this was all factored in by larger companies before these trials were being offered but I highly doubt it. More than likely what they've realized is that there is a feasible price point for ownership of a massive catalog of unique gene sequences including yours over time. BUT in the event that progress is made utilizing your "virtual employment" as well as your actual study data there is ZERO TO NO real credit actually given to you or any of the rest of us for that matter. So that's like the old music contracts that musicians used to sign where they were limited to only making pennies on the dollar for actually record spins or album sells as well as probably NEVER being able to fully own their own master copies either. That was before Napster, Limewire, etc created market deregulation. That's essentially the same thing that's happening in this industry with your genetic material. If the average revenue or profit that each company earns, utilizing stored gene samples, was factored what you'd probably deduce is that the Lifetime Value of your consented genetic allowance is not soing you're even remotely benefiting from outside of a meager payday. But this is the true American Way. The private shareholders of these companies are the real winners (and maybe the real losers too) while you're just the guinea pig. Us as participants are only making pennies on the dollar based on each company's annual revenue spread utilizing our DNA. Not to mention any additional revenue streams that are created through usage of your blood as well. After you've been "tagged & bagged" it's only natural that your Unique Value goes down with each company that has access to it. Underneath this whole industry are some very dirty truths that of course linger in the back of our mind's but never really hits us until like the musicians of old we are broken and aged while our hits are still making someone else money on the radio. Ultimately I'm not saying to not sign-off on these things or never do studies. What I am confirming is that regardless of the "opportunity" there is an unseen cost benefit structure that most these other guinea pigs will never have the heart to fathom simply because they need to make a few quick and easy dollars. Unless you're a private shareholder yourself then in the long run you, your ancestors and mine will probably STILL be getting ****ed by the same system of unchecked capitalism as they've been doing. And the only hope for any real market correction lies in full deregulation of industrial pharmaceuticals. Save your money and spend it wisely. This isn't a forever guaranteed revenue stream by far. Wish someone had the heart to tell me these truths when I started too. Most are just as greedy, desperate, hurt, used, lonely or ambitious as the next man though so they won't ever tell you the truth. You'll have to figure it out the hard way because no one really speaks up honestly anymore... |
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Post by puntkicker on Dec 5, 2016 2:28:40 GMT -5
Thanks for that info. I did a study elsewhere where they gave a choice about the DNA storage, and said it wouldnt effect your selection. I just looked at one with Celerion, and it seemed like it was part of the study, not a choice. For the DNA storage, do most studies that have it force you to do it, or can you still be in the study without it, like the study I opted not to do it? Why exactly(in detail, if possible) do they want to store our genes or whatever? In the last study I looked it, I think part of it was up to 20 years! I kind of let the money outweigh my concerns, but didnt get in anyhow. Please tell me what you can about this DNA storage and why we should avoid it. Thanks Well to be frank anything involving genetic storage and testing over time should require MUCH more red tape than in this case it actually does. But alas this is the United States where anything or anyone can be bought. When you sign a document that allows a company to have your genetic samples for the next ten years what you are essentially doing is 10 years worth of "virtual employment" that you're being written off of at the same time meaning you're mom, dad, ancestors get NO credit for whatever unique gene factors your blood holds. So let's use intellectual property for an example: Anytime intellectual property is created and used it requires some form of publishing or copyright due to the uniqueness of the material. The purpose of the "publishing" on the property is to not only track it's value overtime but give indisputable rights to the creator for it's original formulation, even if the copyright only falls under the form of a Creative Commons clause. With Pharmaceutical Sponsor there is no individual form of tracking and credit or reimbursement. Meaning if I where to whip up a batch of "healthy" drugs using your blood and a few others people's blood as a catalyst, even if the batch turns out bunk your blood work contributed to furthering the cause of research and therefore the eventual outcome of the drug's viability. Now, maybe this was all factored in by larger companies before these trials were being offered but I highly doubt it. More than likely what they've realized is that there is a feasible price point for ownership of a massive catalog of unique gene sequences including yours over time. BUT in the event that progress is made utilizing your "virtual employment" as well as your actual study data there is ZERO TO NO real credit actually given to you or any of the rest of us for that matter. So that's like the old music contracts that musicians used to sign where they were limited to only making pennies on the dollar for actually record spins or album sells as well as probably NEVER being able to fully own their own master copies either. That was before Napster, Limewire, etc created market deregulation. That's essentially the same thing that's happening in this industry with your genetic material. If the average revenue or profit that each company earns, utilizing stored gene samples, was factored what you'd probably deduce is that the Lifetime Value of your consented genetic allowance is not soing you're even remotely benefiting from outside of a meager payday. But this is the true American Way. The private shareholders of these companies are the real winners (and maybe the real losers too) while you're just the guinea pig. Us as participants are only making pennies on the dollar based on each company's annual revenue spread utilizing our DNA. Not to mention any additional revenue streams that are created through usage of your blood as well. After you've been "tagged & bagged" it's only natural that your Unique Value goes down with each company that has access to it. Underneath this whole industry are some very dirty truths that of course linger in the back of our mind's but never really hits us until like the musicians of old we are broken and aged while our hits are still making someone else money on the radio. Ultimately I'm not saying to not sign-off on these things or never do studies. What I am confirming is that regardless of the "opportunity" there is an unseen cost benefit structure that most these other guinea pigs will never have the heart to fathom simply because they need to make a few quick and easy dollars. Unless you're a private shareholder yourself then in the long run you, your ancestors and mine will probably STILL be getting ****ed by the same system of unchecked capitalism as they've been doing. And the only hope for any real market correction lies in full deregulation of industrial pharmaceuticals. Save your money and spend it wisely. This isn't a forever guaranteed revenue stream by far. Wish someone had the heart to tell me these truths when I started too. Most are just as greedy, desperate, hurt, used, lonely or ambitious as the next man though so they won't ever tell you the truth. You'll have to figure it out the hard way because no one really speaks up honestly anymore... Wow!! Before reading your post, I thanked someone for shocking me with a very good reply. To me, this was a great reply, thanks. So if I understand you correctly, the blood in those samples is for use in things not even related to that particular study? The first sponsor to ask for mine(thankfully they gave an opinion to say no, which wasnt available with the next sponsor to ask) was big tobacco's own. RJ Reynolds. Im not sure I'd want to know why they'd want my gene sequence? From my observation, nature seems to espouse the attainment of perfection through endless amounts of randomized trials. I honestly wouldn't want anyone messing around with mine, for possibilities far beyond lack of compensation. Then again, when I started thinking about the ancestors not caring, I then considered it in a more esoteric light(I mean DNA's dual snake structure was purportedly discovered with the aid of LSD). Signing away ownership, in that light, could have far greater effects than either of us could fathom, if a person holds beliefs similar to mine. I didn't realize I was signing away ownership of my DNA as if it were intellectual property, as you describe. I'm still not sure I understand how our unique genes would help with the development of their drugs. Another thing that bothers me about this is that Celerion, the facilitators of the study that required it(vs the first, which only requested it), did not tell me in advance of the screening. I only found out after several hundred miles of driving. I wish it were a requirement to be disclosed on the phone, or at least a common decency each clinic would have. From my experience, the average recuiter would seem more likely than not to be in the dark about it. Would you agree that's the case? I suppose I could make it a new policy on EVERY call to ask them to find out from a supervisor, but that seems a bit arduous. You sound like you may have been doing studies for quite awhile, but recently(maybe the last couple of years), how common would you estimate this as? When I was at Celerion, the lady who had me signing my name to many things, to the best of my memory, didnt make any big deal about that . My memory isn't always my stong suit, but there was no explanation, let alone one like yours. I have a sneaky suspicion that the people on here who actually care about this might be a small minority, so any more information you can provide may help those of us who do care. If anyone cares about the price, it looked like it might have been $1000-$1500 more of a payout, as a data point. Thanks again for making me want to study this more in advance, to try to figure out what level my cause for concern should be at. As of now, you're my only source on this, as I'm not sure how well a web search would go for me on this specific topic. |
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Post by rapunzel on Nov 7, 2017 17:52:18 GMT -5
You can add me to the list of those who’ve spent hundreds on travel to for PPD at their behest for naught...except their excuses were so blatantly bogus it was insulting. They’d known for days the study wasn’t going to happen and it wasn’t worth a minute to call or email us? (yes us—there were several who traveled from afar, one who’d already experienced the same several times before.) It wasn’t worth a minute of thief time to let us know it had been cancelled so we could at least get a flight credit?
And of course the VIP pass is bogus! When it came time to use it for another study within the 90-day expiration, it was worthless.
Ethics? They’re the same as any other corporate entity; the only “ethics” are those that serve their own best interests.
I’m actually glad to know how they operate. Abuse is abuse. Why would I invest any more my time, health, and financial trust in an entity that’s already behaved so badly when there are other options?
And to the “local” who resents the rest of us who do travel, give it a try! Truly trust in the “goodness” of the corporate landscape and a round trip plane ticket, lodging and ground transportation. Invest outside of your local comfort zone and see what it’s like before you call us out.
If PPD were next door, I’d think the same of them!
...and yes, it is up to us to do our “due diligence” and somewhere in the fine print we do sign over our right to address the abuse and outright thievery of our DNA, and hopefully none of their “freelance side sales” will result in our being sued for child support as the industry makes the next megabucks in growing whole human beings from blood samples and epithelial scrapings to make more consumables...I mean people to exploit for peanuts we gobble up like starving students ..,
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mike
Moderator 
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Post by mike on Nov 8, 2017 2:48:46 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that but I have heard this same story many times, very often involving PPD. Other clinics act like irresponsible dickheads too but there are definitely some that are worse than others. People need to vote with their feet like you are doing, that's what I did; I lived in Austin for five years and after screening at PPD several times and being bumped or rejected for BS reasons and never actually getting into a study, I stopped even going there and only went to Worldwide, Icon, and Covance.
And as you say, it's one thing when the clinic ends up not admitting you for the study, but when they don't bother to communicate with people adequately and in a timely manner, and it ends up costing you a lot of money and wasted time, this is truly obnoxious.
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