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Post by drakingson on Nov 5, 2015 0:35:12 GMT -5
I went there fora screening because I needed the money not because any of their studies were paying a lot. I blood pressure was ONE POINT OVER and now I am banned/blackballed until I can have a doctor approve me to come back. Since I've gone to my own doctor for this before (once again one point over) he thinks these people are cray cray and won't even see me. My insurance company wont allow me to see another doctor so I have to go pay the money out of my own pocket. The staff kept yelling me to relax. They had an attitude and after all of this stress my blood pressure went over again. I tried to get it back down but who can with this abuse. I left pissed off and tried to explain my situation with the manager there and she just blew it off.
Covance has gone down a spiral the past year. There is talk of them going bankrupt or closing some of its facilities possibly Madison. I called the IRB but after their investigation they did nothing. Since I wont come back to a place that abuses me I am going to just make their life a hell and sent out complaint letters to every government organization in Madison, WI, and the federal government. This si WAR!
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Post by vark on Nov 6, 2015 20:34:58 GMT -5
Um, i have my own issues with covance. but in your case, it's relatively easy and cheap to go to one of those walk in clinics and for maybe $60 get a letter saying your blood pressure is fine (if it is.)
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Post by travelingrat on Nov 7, 2015 9:56:59 GMT -5
well, good luck getting anyone in the government to listen to you. i have sent many letters to the FDA and never even received a single acknowledgement. if you receive any communication from them, PLEASE post on this Forum about it.
i also have little respect for IRB's. i have been aghast at some of the sneering and unhelpful treatment i have received from IRB's. and in several cases, i was not communicating for any sort of personal gain, but with info on larger issues. HA! HA! Live and learn.
i have had, and know of a few others who have had, some small successes by communicating directly with the sponsors (i.e., the pharma corporations). but that would not seem to apply in this case.
anyway, sad that happened to you and may you have better luck in the future! from Traveling rat
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Post by travelingrat on Nov 7, 2015 11:44:08 GMT -5
ok but even if he or anyone on this forum is a lunatic, if anyone writes to the FDA and gets a response, i want to know!
and i do have to say, i have been in clinics where the staff WAS shouting back and forth to each other during vitals. i consider that very diespectful and counterproductive so i do not necessarily dismiss his report.
last year i was meditating with my eyes closed as my BP was being taken and the screener called attention to it and joked about it! i am a quiet, courteous OLD lady labrat .... so i can definitely affirm that rude and uncalled-for behavior on the part of clinic staff can and does happen. and i have plenty of anecdotes about such things.
IRB's generally do not take anyone's grievances seriously. and i dont think the lunatics have anythign to do with it. their livelihood is too connected to the clinics and to the pharmas.
and the clinics know there are always more labrats just waiting for a study, so they can and do, do just about whatever they want.
jsut my opinion of course.
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Post by travelingrat on Nov 8, 2015 9:34:06 GMT -5
i brought up IRB's since Drakingson said he contacted one. i have contacted many. a few have some helpful employees who have given me good info (if nothing else), but most are useless.
and that is why i have written to the FDA several times, and they are less than useless.
lab rats, sane or insane, seem to have little recourse for their complaints. and even a crazy person can sometimes have a valid complaint.
the only articles i have read about lab rats seem to portray us as interesting humans who make good money traveling the country. (they don't usually mention the inconveniences.) there may be plenty of articles portraying us otherwise but i haven't seen them. anyway i am not doubting you; i just haven't seen them.
i do agree that there is a stigma to lab ratting.... even believed by persons in the field, who should know better. i have talked to IRB employees who have actually said (among other things) that they believe that "no one" should do more than one study a year for compensation, that "making a living" (ha) or being a "professional" lab rat is wrong. (isn't that part of the VCT propaganda to clinics, to weed out the dreaded "Professionals"?)
yet how many persons would do what we do for free?
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mike
Moderator 
Posts: 334
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Post by mike on Nov 8, 2015 14:34:39 GMT -5
Crazy people might.
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Post by adamdarat on Nov 30, 2015 10:45:07 GMT -5
IRB won't respond to issues like these! If a facility say your blood work out of range then there is nothing to complain about . It is black on white, you can't do healthy studies if you aren't clean and healthy and no IRB or any other facility will help with that .
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Post by travelingrat on Dec 3, 2015 9:14:32 GMT -5
IRB won't respond to issues like these! If a facility say your blood work out of range then there is nothing to complain about . It is black on white, you can't do healthy studies if you aren't clean and healthy and no IRB or any other facility will help with that . true but drakingson said that staff was yelling while taking his BP's. BP is very sensitive to stress and noise. the best clinics know this and put volunteers in a private room and have them relax for at least 5 minutes, often 10. the not-so-good clinics use assembly-line procedures, which should not be acceptable. i am fortunate in that i nearly always have 115/75 BP or less, no matter what. but i have friends whose BP soars if it is taken in one of the assembly-line clinics. if one has traveled a distance to screen, that should make it an issue for the IRB. 7 or 8 years ago, Celerion used to have a patient advocate (Darra H.)who listened to issues such as this and tried to resolve them if she believed the volunteer had a point. a couple of years ago, celerion changed its IRB and my understanding is that there is now no patient advocate. i have never heard of a patient advocate at other clinics but some may have them. some clinic directors are also much more empathetic to volunteers than others. as things stand now, volunteers have little recourse over issues such as this, or cancellations at the last moment, or procedures added on that were not in the original consent form, etc., etc., etc. (Just read through old posts for numerous examples!) high-quality clinics listen to their volunteers and care about them. i have mentioned on this forum before that the one time my BP was out of range, i was screening at SNBL in Baltimore. this was in 2011. the screener was a wonderful young man named Iael (or soing similar), no longer there. he and the nurse practitioner, johanna, who is retired now i think, had me lie down in their most quiet room for 20 minutes. lo and behold, 20 minutes later, my BP was fine and ued fine every time thereafter, during that study and others i did after that. basically, the clinics have the power. for that reason, when i have a choice, i choose clinics that care about their volunteers. many times i do not have that choice and just have to suck it up, as do all of us wage slaves. but i strongly believe that there should be some review organization or advocate for us since the IRB's and the FDA are generally useless re volunteer issues. |
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labrat1981
Junior Member
Posts: 99
I mainly do: Healthy Studies
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Post by labrat1981 on Dec 5, 2015 14:50:46 GMT -5
Being chosen for studies is a competitive process. Just putting that out there, for those of you who don't seem to get it. Exactly.  |
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Post by travelingrat on Dec 5, 2015 19:11:08 GMT -5
for my part, i choose to compete at clinics with high standards, well-trained staff, and respect for volunteers. i only wish there were more of them.
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Post by ac on Dec 5, 2015 21:03:00 GMT -5
for my part, i choose to compete at clinics with high standards, well-trained staff, and respect for volunteers. i only wish there were more of them. I'm curious, which clinics do you feel fit your description? |
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Post by travelingrat on Dec 7, 2015 11:07:37 GMT -5
snbl; ocrc; clinilabs NY; tkl; avail. it is not that there were not the usual difficulties and problems during studies, especially the longer ones .... rather, when i did studies at all of them, there was a sincere effort to solve problems and respect my (and others') input. and there was certainly no yelling during BP's; the vitals are taken in quiet, private rooms.
for me, it's all about working as a team. i strive to do my part, and i want clinic staff to strive to do their parts too.
of course, just as a restaurant can have a great chef and staff and then go downhill, that could happen with any of these clinics too ...but i doubt they will ever get really bad unless they change ownership.
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labrat1981
Junior Member
Posts: 99
I mainly do: Healthy Studies
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Post by labrat1981 on Dec 7, 2015 18:48:30 GMT -5
for my part, i choose to compete at clinics with high standards, well-trained staff, and respect for volunteers. i only wish there were more of them. I'm curious, which clinics do you feel fit your description? HAHAHAHAHA  |
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Post by travelingrat on Dec 8, 2015 9:42:31 GMT -5
The staff kept yelling me to relax. No, they didn't. and i do have to say, i have been in clinics where the staff WAS shouting back and forth to each other during vitals. i consider that very diespectful and counterproductive so i do not necessarily dismiss his report. Yes, you keep repeating his idiotic claim--as if staff being noisier than you'd prefer (your expectation is a 20 minute lie-down in a private room, correct? Gee, that's not expecting special treatment at all!) bore any resemblance to his claim that staff were yelling at him. i do not EXPECT special treatment. i have been in all sorts of clinics and done all kinds of studies. the point i have been trying to make is that there are clinics out there who will go the extra mile. it doesn't take much effort on their part to take some extra time for someone who has traveled far, or who really needs a good study. in my opinion, maybe not yours, it does often make a difference whether screening is done in a quiet space, preferably a private room. for example. i have done several studies at celerion tempe and have always passed their screenings ...but i hated the screenings. staff herded the volunteers along from station to station. we were asked to sign the consent before talking to the doctor. when i did talk to him, he had not even read the consent form and knew nothing. i compare this to OCRC, where you wait in a quiet room, a staff member calmly takes your vitals, and the doctors will answer all your questions and then some. were you there with Drakingson? if not, how do you know what went on? i personally have had some weird experiences at covance. anyway this thread seems to be deteriorating. i post when i feel i have some suggestion, perspective, or info that might help another lab rat, or sometimes to offer sympathy. i try never to post snide remarks. it seems counterproductive to a courteous and useful forum. so happy ratting and adieu! |
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