Inside Article for Clinics Regarding Negotiating Higher Pay

[smiling4areason]

www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-229984296.html?key=01-42160D517E1A16601A02061D0F684B36254D35463B78700E730E0B60641A617F1371193F

[smiling4areason]

I just tried the link and now it's only showing a portion of the article, weird.

Anyway, the gist is that a few years ago sponsors stopped paying the CRU's as much money up front and started making CRU's carry/cover the cost until long after the study was over. The time correlates to when studies began paying volunteers lower stipends. Which is understandable, the CRU's where in a crunch, they had to carry not only the volunteer payroll, which could easily be $500,000+, they also had to cover, the nurses and doctors, lab costs, rent, electric, laundry, food, and and and... Now, multiply that by 5-6+ studies going on at once and pretty soon we're talking easily $5M out of pocket per month and have to wait 6 months to collect. The article went on to say that this, among other reasons, is why several CRU's had to shut their doors, they couldn't float the whole boat while waiting to get paid. (These closures are what has prompted the Sponsor to rethink their pay schedules) 

We all noticed that some CRU's lowered everyone's pay (our stipends), it's likely it was to keep the doors so at least we could all ue to make soing (them included).

Anyhow, the Sponsors have realized that holding back the money was counter productive and in the last few months, many sponsors have begun to release the pay to CRU's sooner. Thereby relieving some of that financial burden from the clinics, who don't have the Billions to work with that sponsors have.

OK...
Here's the Million Dollar Question...
"Now that the sponsors are not putting so much of the financial responsibility on the CRU's, will the CRU's respond in kind by returning stipends levels to soing more inline with pre 2008 dollars?? Or will they figure, we've been taking it so far, why not pocket the extra money and keep it pushin. CHING CHING!"

I hope, like everyone, that they will spread the wealth a bit. Maybe we should ALL mention, every time we call recruiting and every time we screen, that it's getting hard to get by on the low stipended. I'm not saying don't sign the consent, I'm just saying, voice an honest concern. The pay IS TO LOW, we're not just being paid for the time dosing, the TOTAL time we commit is far more and we need to be able to live during that time, and it shouldn't be sleeping on couches or in shelter. 

PS.
I know I write long posts, FK, I'm an orator, trust me though, these are the condensed versions of my thoughts. It's stuff I'd want to know, so I figure for those interested they'll take the 3 minutes to read it, I like to throw out questions and stir the pot of thought. For those who don't have the 3 minutes, skip it, or like so many in society, let someone else read it, form an opinion and then give it you...it's much easier that way (though, somehow, not quite as satisfying) That's why I like to throw out questions and stir the pot of thought.

[mike]

I've talked about this before here, clinics that do studies with substandard pay get avoided by me; I put them at lowest priority and frequent other clinics whenever possible.
If I do have to do one of these lower paying studies because it is all that is available then I ***** and make a never-ending stink about it; I talk about it here and I talk about it in the clinic.

Here is a huge hint to fight the scourge of crappy paying studies: If you do one of these studies, hopefully representatives of the sponsor will come into the clinic during the study(as they sometimes do), and if you can ***** your head off about the slave wages within earshot of the sponsor reps it can be extremely effective. One time I did one of these studies at WCCT and everyone really complained and a big group of like 5 or 6 people from the sponsor was there, and they heard all the subjects complaining and saying they were going to quit the study, and the payout quickly got upped $600, from $2100 to $2700.

[mike]

And BTW, clinics paying us too little because they claim the sponsor is stringing out their payment is a load of crap.
That's not our responsibility, it's theirs.

If a clinic can't demand that a sponsor front more of the payment, or they can't cover some float, even of a couple million dollars, then they should close their doors.
A couple million dollars is chump change to these sponsors AND to the clinics.
Besides, we participants usually have to complete the entire study and then plus a week or two before we get payed.

[travelingrat]

a few years back, i read an article that when big pharmas first started running studies big-time, they were not even sure they could find volunteers and a few of them paid out what would now be considered outrageous compensation. up until then, it was mostly university hospitals and the NIH doing studies, with very small compensation (actually most studies at universities and hospitals still pay very little). i wish i could find that article again but i am not skilled in internet search (yet!).

i totally agree with mike that the pharma corporations are swimming in cash. if we were only able to band together and demand more, they would have to pay it. and, in my opinion, we deserve better pay. unfortunately, the average lab rat does not understand this concept, or may understand but be in circumstances too desperate to take the risk of demanding more. organizing unions (in the good old days when they could do some good) was hard enough, but you were dealing with a fixed population in a fixed location. their chief concern was strikebreakers. in our case, we are mostly a diverse grouping, maybe even from several states, and it is hard to get to know one another. mike, i think it is awesome what happened at WCCT.

also, to smiling: i LOVE your posts. they have added a wonderful dimension to the forum.

i am at a library computer and time is up or i would have more to say on this subject!

[diamond]

I wonder if some of them have the 'deduct money if they don't finish a meal' thing so they can pocket that money. Otherwise, why do some clinics require eating everything... and some don't?

I agree... I avoid the low paying clinics and prefer Covance above all others in my area because they don't require you to eat everything AND... if you drop mid-study, they pro-rate you fairly. AND... if the drug makes you sick and you get sent home.. they usually pay you the FULL stipend.

Covance rocks.

[smiling4areason]

Oct 21, 2013 18:20:24 GMT -5 mike said:

Here is a huge hint to fight the scourge of crappy paying studies: If you do one of these studies, hopefully representatives of the sponsor will come into the clinic during the study(as they sometimes do), and if you can ***** your head off about the slave wages within earshot of the sponsor reps it can be extremely effective. One time I did one of these studies at WCCT and everyone really complained and a big group of like 5 or 6 people from the sponsor was there, and they heard all the subjects complaining and saying they were going to quit the study, and the payout quickly got upped $600, from $2100 to $2700.

That's awesome!! I'm kicking myself right now because the last study I did the sponsors were there over seeing things the first few days.

[vark]

the irbs have a lot of input to how much the pay is.this is a very strange industry. they think they if they pay a living wage it will attract people who will just do it for the money - ignoring the fact that we already do this.

if you can get even half the people in your study to get together to ask for soing, they will respond. i was a on a study one time where a guy got everybody to agree to ask to change an outpatient away from other's day. didnt matter to me but i went along. so they did it.

if you got 5 or 10 or more subjects to jointly sign a well-written leter to the irb, it might have an impact. it might not, but stamps are cheap. probably the best strategy is to *****, in writing, to the clinic, the sponsor and the irb at the same time.

use the consent process to ask for more data on how they decided to pay us. people rarely ask questions, but once we ask they have some ethical obligations to get us that info.

the consent agreement tells you who the sponsor is, and then you can google and start making phone calls to find out whoch people at the sponsor are dealing with your study. quietly, because the clinic might not like that.
to really have an impact, recruit 6 friends who aren't regulars, have them get into a study, try to get someof the other study partiipants to join in, then go on strike, being willing to walk out of the study if they dont meet your demands - whatever those are. it's hardto pull this off, but fun. regulars won't do it because they would be afraid to be banned, or they need the money in the short term.
i also like your long thoughtful comments, mr smiling4reason.
covance - can we talk about covance again now? i see it is back on the home page. best thing is you don't have to eat all the food,
and they have lots of big money studies. but they are weasels, don't trust them.