Just a few ?s from the new guy that I didn't see on the site

[thedude]

Hi everyone, hope all is going well. I just signed up here but I've spent a few hours the past couple of days reading around on the site and forum and I have done a study or two before, even though it was several years back, so I know the general gist of it. I still have a couple of general questions that I didn't see anywhere and was hoping some of you vets out there could fill me in. I'll just list them, thanks for your time and any advice, insight you can tell me. Peace.

1. What should be my mindset when enrolling in studies if my goal is just to get the most amount of money for least amount of time invested? Is it better to sign up for studies that pay several thousand dollars but are spread out and take 2 or 3 months to complete all outpatients or just do short studies that pay far less but require far less time also and then just keep pounding these short studies out like once every month or 6 weeks or whatever the washout phase is? What do the pros or full timers at this generally do, do you guys only do the big money studies or do you frequent the quickies also in high quantities?

2. How feasible would it be to earn like say $10K, $15K, or $20K+ doing just studies in one calendar year? Are there people who only do studies and make that kind of money? Do you vets go through prolonged periods of dry spells where you waste say a month or two months in a calendar year cause you can't find any enrolling studies that you qualify for or is it pretty easy to bounce from study to study after the washout period? What type of money do the full timers at this aim to make in a calendar year and do they generally hit their goal?

3. Are there any specified trial drugs that even the vets on here won't enroll in because of know bad side effects or reactions or long term health problems?

4. What's the deal with the shi*#y food at these places. From my experience doing the studies I did several years back, that was by far the worst part. The food from what I remember was horrible. I think I even upchucked after one meal one day it was so nasty. Has that situation improved or is it still really bad and is there anything we can do about it or are we stuck with it(pun intended), like is it possible to request a kosher or a special meal or is it just eat what they have cause everyone gets the same exact food? Do you have to eat everything or can you throw out any portion you find indigestible?

6. How do you vets determine if it's worth it to travel further away from where you live to do a study? Like does it have to pay X amount more for you to go to an out of state study as opposed to one closer to home or do you guys just literally go where the bigger money is and follow that?

[ac]

I don't know if I qualify as a veteran but i've done 8 studies in the last 13 months.

1. I try to do studies that have just 1 period and 0 or 1 out patient visit. I have no problem with being confined in a clinic for 2-3 weeks straight so these studies work best for me. Those studies should pay $3-6K each.

2. Earnings. I don't need much to live on so my goal is to make around $15K/yr taxable(after expenses). I need to make about $17-18K before expenses and should be able to do that in 5 studies. I plan to take winters off if at all possible and it should be possible. I think I could make $30K+ if I really wanted to but I want my veins to last so I give myself some long breaks. It makes a big difference where you live. I have 3 clinics within about 150 miles so I just go to those 3 and it doesn't cost all that much in travel costs.

3. No specific drugs that I know about that should be avoided. I prefer not to do IV drugs but that's just a personal preference. I also prefer not to do drugs that effect the brain.

4. The food is not very good at most clinics. Some clinics the food is mandatory and some it's not. I may avoid Spaulding because all food and drink is mandatory and they give milk several times a day. I really dislike milk. Covance is good because food is not mandatory and you get a good serving size. Not great quality but at least you don't starve like at Spaulding and .

5. I don't own a tv so I don't see commercials for trials.

6. I've been to PPD for a big study but that was risky since it was 1300 miles from home. From now on I plan to stay local. It depends where you live but it's probably best to just take the best of the local studies rather than go 1000 miles to try to get into a bigger study.

Hope this helps you some. 

[thedude]

Thanks ac that reply was helpful. I thought of a couple more questions too if you or anyone else knows.

7. Is it beneficial to sign up online for different clinic recruiting databases on their individual websites or is it better just to call the recruiting number at whatever place you're interested in going to? The reason I ask is the CRO closest to where I live doesn't ever have studies listed on their website in the month or so that I've been checking their site and when I call their recruiting number they tell me they don't have anything currently available but that I should sign up on their website and they'll call/email me when soing comes up. It's been like a month or 6 weeks and nothing and I know of at least one person who is a friend of mine that has completed a study there within the past month. So I'm kinda wondering what's up with that. Is it normal for a CRO to go dry for like an entire month and not recruit at all or is there some kind of code word I need to use when I contact them or do I need to be more demanding with them or what? I'm really eager to get into a study, time is money they say, so that leads me to my next question.

8. If I were to travel and do a study in another state, I keep seeing them advertised on TV and in the paper daily or every other day, and it had several outpatient visits after the in house portion and I didn't live in the area would they accommodate me with a place to stay or would I be on my own and have to get a hotel or soing? I've been checking the websites of the CROs in neighboring states and they all have plenty of studies available but none of them are compact, they are all spread out with numerous returns after the main study portion and that would get expensive quick if I was on my own to cover the expenses of that, either I would be out several hundred in hotel fees or I would have to make back and forth commutes of several hundred miles and waste a lot of time driving back and forth plus whatever gas costs.

9. I know it would depend on the individual study but in general on these studies that have long in house stays of like 10 days or 2 weeks plus does the frequency of blood draws usually go down as the study progresses or is every day a heavy day with a draw like every hour?

[ac]

Everything you're asking about varies from clinic to clinic or study to study.

7. Some clinics will call you if you are in their system and you're a potential candidate for a study but you usually are the one who has to make contact. I don't deal with the clinics that don't post their active studies.

8. If the OPVs are spread out more than a couple days apart then it's very unlikely it'll be worth while to do that study if you live far away. If it's just a day or 2 between OPVs some clinics will do what's called a courteous stay. If the clinic is nearly full they won't do it but it doesn't hurt to ask.

9. I've had studies over 2 weeks long with just one day with a lot of blood draws. Almost always you will have a lot of blood draws the day of your first dose. Most studies will have several days with 3 or less draws and just a couple with a dozen or more draws.

If you tell me the area you live in I could recommend what clinics would be best for you to go to. Some areas are just not very good for studies. 

[thedude]

Thanks again for answering my questions ac. I live in rural MO and the closest CRO to me is PharmaMedica in St. Louis and I also have family in that area I could stay with close to the facility but like I was saying earlier, I can't get into a study there and they haven't had any listed on their website for like a month since I started checking/calling. I'm a few hours drive away from the 4 CROs in the Lenexa/Overland Park KS areas and also Bio Kinetic in Springfield. I've been looking through those websites and they have plenty of studies I'd qualify for but my only concern was all of the OPVs that are spread out since I'm not local to any of those places that would be problematic for me. I'm a lot like you in respect to your goal with studies, how much money you're trying to make and the types of studies to do. I'd rather do studies where I have to stay in the clinic for a week or 10 days at a time and then be done as opposed to a weekend followed by 15 OPVs for example. I welcome all recommendations and suggestions that you may have. Thanks.

[ac]

Unfortunately PharmaMedica is one of the worst clinics in the country. I haven't been there but i've noticed that the pay is well below normal. Also, the studies usually have a big gap between periods or have multiple OPVs. So it doesn't pay that much and has a large time commitment. If you haven't already, I would call those clinics nearest to you and get put into their computer systems. I've heard people in studies say that they get calls from Vince & Associates when there's a study they qualify for. Them and Quintiles are probably your best bets. Also, if you're not too far west of St. Louis, you could check out Covance Evansville. They don't have anything real good right now but they have more good studies than the average clinic.

[thedude]

Cool I'll get on networking in with the places you suggested. I've actually seen ads on TV commercials and in the paper for a few places in bing states recently and I've read through some threads on this forum and apparently most people, if not all, agree with you about Covance Evansville being a good place and PharmaMedica being poorly operated and underpaying. This might be extreme, I don't know, but if I can get into a study at one of the CROs in the Kansas City area soon, I might look into just moving out there for the time being since there are essentially 5 CROs within a short commute of there between Overland Park, Lenexa and Springfield. I came across an article on a google search from some site where this guy was describing his experience being a lab rat for a few years. He said when he first started out he would kinda bounce around from state to state and just travel and do studies at different CROs, but then once he had done a few and learned a few things, he said he decided to move to the Austin/San Antonio TX area and just lived there and rotated through the CROs in that area. Apparently he was saying that's know as the mecca of these studies. I don't know if he's right about that or not but I do know that I've been looking through all of the CRO websites and so far PPD in Austin has the highest paying study that I've seen listed. $7K for essentially 2 entire months in length with four six day trial periods and one OPV. What do you think of that study is the pay fair?

[ac]

PPD is the best paying clinic in the country that i'm aware of. I'm close with my family so i'm going to stay put in Wisconsin but if I wasn't then I agree that Austin,TX would be the best place to move to for studies. Kansas City area is the next best place. Milwaukee,WI area is good for studies too but winters are horrible that far north.

As far as that particular study in Austin(PPD), I probably wouldn't do it. It's spread out too much. They have studies pretty frequently for $5-6K for 16-20 straight days with no OPVs or maybe 1 OPV. I guess if I lived right there near Austin then i'd do that $7000 study but not if I lived out of state.

[thedude]

I'm the exact opposite on family. Not close at all, no problems or hatred, we just don't get together much anymore except usually around the holidays at the end of the year. Everyone is too busy with their kids and demanding jobs and such. Having said that I have no dependents of my own and no current obligations and most of my friends from growing up together and school have moved away or are busy with their kids and such. So, I'm basically free to go wherever. If I left now and didn't come back for a few years, I wouldn't miss much of anything at all here. I think I'm just going to do one of the studies in Kansas to start out. I'll call this place that I've seen commercials for tomorrow and ask them what the deal is with the OPVs and see if they can hook soing up since there are so many and I don't live near there. If they can provide me a room or let me sleep in my vehicle in their parking lot or soing I'm game for that. It would be nice to get one of these $3500 or $5K studies under my belt within this next month. Then if I have to in the future months, I could travel further away if needed to get into a bigger study or just move somewhere with frequent good studies and not have to sweat running low on money. I'm a pretty frugal and resourceful person so I don't need a lot of money to live well but it would be nice to hit the $15K mark in a year. That's about what I'm used to and would be quite comfortable with.